Wednesday 17 May 2006

'Christian morality'

If we remove Christianity from the scene then what defines ethics and morality? asks Stuart......
 
Your question is founded on the notion that non-Christian cultures do not have ethical/moral codes whereas in fact we know that they do - indeed one of the stumbling blocks to social harmony between countries and within them is the firmness, not to say intransigence, of the moral codes of other and competing religions.
Your question also suggests that atheists and agnostics have no moral code which I also believe to be untrue and that many and maybe most atheists and agnostics would deplore the circumstances I outlined in my piece Suffer the Little Children.  It's also the case that within Christianity there are  some very wide differences in moral/ethical codes - the Plymouth Brethren, Strict and Particular Methodists, Opus Dei and Christian Scientists for example vary enormously.
 
Perhaps given the lack of social homogeneity in respect of ethical issues it's simpler to remove morality from the equation in cases like this and just ask whether the best interests of this child have been neglected, not only by her parent but by society as a whole.  Was/Is she at risk in terms of her physical and psychological health?  I would say she is at risk as evidenced by the late night party going, the smoking, the alcohol consumption, the exposure to her mother's drug habits, and her age-inappropriate unprotected sexual behaviour.
 
Imagine the risks to life of any infant born into this incredibly dysfunctional household and the only question needing an answer is not what would Christian morality say but what does the law say and why is it not implemented?
 
Shall I be smitten by lightning for the hubris of arguing ethics with a Minister?  :O))

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

No Jane it wasn't founded on that basis at all. ;)

Rather I was saying what si the basis of ethics and morality in any society?
I said Christianity because it was from my own country and society that this case comes.

To be honest in this case if you remove Christianity as the basis for morality and ethics in this case then I cannot see on what basis we can judge this situation.
Why is it wrong?

You argue that one should remove morality here - fair enough but then you go on to argue about age inappropriate sex etc.

Why is it inappropriate? Just because a section fo society currently say so? Women working was once regarded as inappropriate etc........

Just because "law" says it is wrong why should it be?

If ethics or morality have any basis it must be placed on firmer ground than "we the majority say so".

What informs the ethic and morality of atheists?


Anonymous said...

I said Christianity because it was from my own country and society that this case comes.

To be honest in this case if you remove Christianity as the basis for morality and ethics in this case then I cannot see on what basis we can judge this situation.
Why is it wrong?

Smoking, binge drinking, unprotected sex and exposure to the hard drugs milieu are all dangerously unhealthy.  A parent who allows a child to be exposed to all of these behaviours is perilously neglecting the well-being of the child.  All societies and cultures place significant value on the well-being of minors and to go against this universal value (ethic) is antisocial and therefore universally 'wrong'.  
A parent who persistently neglects a child is not a fit person to have care and control of it.  

Anonymous said...

If ethics or morality have any basis it must be placed on firmer ground than "we the majority say so".

What informs the ethic and morality of atheists?.........



Ethics and morals are situation specific and therefore vary according to culture and time which informs them.  They are a form of culturally specific guidelines sometimes applied as legal rules which act to promote social cohesion and maintain what is defined by power elites as the best interests of the particular society.  Cultural norms both inform and create society so that when we have an absence of norms we have a diminished sense of society.  I believe that's the state we are quickly approaching in the UK.

In the days when the population of ThisOnceGreatNation was much more homogenous then people were aware of society's expectations of them and, perhaps equally as crucial, of their neighbours.  This shared awareness led to a pressure to conform which was very hard to resist and those who were tempted to push the limits of what was considered acceptable commonly refrained because the consequent fall out was likely to have a negative effect on their life chances.
Times change and as they do so the ethics and penalties also change - consider when Vicars who had affairs with parishioners was a matter for the News Of The World compared to contemporary times when even The Archers had a naughty Vicar. <g>

So atheists and agnostics like Christians are infused and enthused - probably to the same extent - with the values of the society they live in.  I'd guess that the ethics and morals of southern states of the USA, of Sicily, of Sweden and of Palestinian Othodox Christians reflect their times and places far more than their religion - and will adapt their ethics as times and situations change.

Anonymous said...

I see where you are coming from and it is a point well made.
But if morals and ethics are no more than cultural norms and pressures then there is no absolute right or wrong and I am off to top my annoying neighbour with a very clear  conscience ;)

It is very hard to carry on a conversation via comments!

Anonymous said...

But if morals and ethics are no more than cultural norms and pressures then there is no absolute right or wrong and I am off to top my annoying neighbour with a very clear  conscience ;)  ....said S.

Ah but you can't - it would be against your personal principles.  On the other hand, if your personal principles don't forbid murder is it ok if I email you a few addresses and photos with cheque to follow?  lolol

Anonymous said...

Well remove Christianity from my life and if I think there is no God at all then I will happily do my neighbour in................fetch me a gun!

And a few others I can think of..............